Meta & Children's Online SafetyChat: It is absolutely a PR strategy to publicly discredit the research
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████ name redacted. Different bars may be the same person or different people.
quoted in an excerpt in the archive.
Thursday 30 September 2021
09:01 PDTWendy Tegge GrossI am reaching out to the researchers I know were affected to offer my support @
200 maybe it's less floral and more responsible to say, the researchers who say they may have been affecte
09:45 PDTshilpa ModyIs it just me or did that research q&a somehow manage to make things worse??
09:47 PDTWendy Tegge Gross*I might perceive that I somehow felt a little worse after that Q&A, but I can't express causality
09:47 PDTWendy Tegge Grose(I think that's what you meant)
09:49 PDTShilpa ModyYes, totally
09:49 PDTShilpa ModyOh wait I didn't weight my data - I mean yes, 80% +/- 5
09:54 PDTShruti BhutadaIt did for me too
09:54 PDTShruti BhutadaSorry, trying to say this as un-florally as possible
09:54 PDTShruti Bhutadawendy, HALP, did we show design concepts to those girls in San Ramon?
09:55 PDTShruti Bhutada@wendy
10:01 PDTShruti Bhutadanvm, I sent it
10:01 PDTShruti BhutadaIts 10 am
10:02 PDTShruti Bhutadahey at least the qual annotations dont imply that i am an absolute degenerate XD
10:03 PDTwendy Tegge Grossbut I'm a little concerned with how often they mentioned the third party vendor
10:03 PDTShruti Bhutadayeah
10:04 PDTShruti BhutadaI know now DSS is writing these annotations but they sound so lawyer-y. Like in case this goes to shit - - third party vendor!
10:04 PDTWendy Tegge GrossI just wrote this to Thank you |. To be completely honest, I'm having a hard reconciling the internal express! ons of support with the tone of some of the external annotations. I don't want to speak for the other researchers, but I know it's been tough
10:06 PDTShruti BhutadaI am happy to send this verbatim but I said it to And cried. And said its ironic to see floral language used to critique our use of floral language also WTF does floral language even mean
10:07 PDTShruti BhutadaBut as an aside, maybe I over-estimated Chris Cox. XD.
10:08 PDTWendy Tegge Grossee she and have been pushing back on the external narrative, so at least there's that
10:08 PDTShruti Bhutadalike MAN what a let down. I actually liked that dude over Zuck
10:08 PDTShruti shutadaSo apparently FB published the deck before WS) and thats really bad practice in comms
10:09 PDTWendy Tegge Grossyup
10:09 PDTShruti BhutadaI am more worried they keep making this into a bigger fire than hurt.
10:09 PDTShruti BhutadaAnd I am hella hurt
10:10 PDTShruti Bhutadalike PLEASE just focus on what they are REALLY criticizing you about and acknowledge it and stop throwing your researchers under the bus and double crossing journos so this can all end PLEASE
10:11 PDTShilpa ModyWait are the annotating more decks now?
10:11 PDTWendy Tegge Grossthe ones that the WSJ published last night
10:12 PDTWendy Tegge Grossit's unclear whether we'll release the annotated versions now that they're out there
10:12 PDTShruti shutadaShared an image
10:12 PDTShruti BhutadaDSS dropping diss tracks left right and centre.
10:13 PDTShruti Bhutadacan you say your researchers are shit AFTER ppl have read the research or it is more effective WHILE they are reading the research.
10:13 PDTShruti BhutadaThat is the research question.
10:17 PDTWendy Tegge Grosshow can we design an experiment to identify the causal mechanism?
10:19 PDTShruti Bhutadajust went to research non managers and YUP the townhall made it worse
10:19 PDTShruti Bhutadai dont know man. Most days I dont even know what my objectives are for my current work
10:43 PDTShruti BhutadaTo be fair, after having gone through the anger and disbelief phase, I actually feel pretty horrible for the pss folks Who got pulled into this too.
10:43 PDTShruti BhutadaThe only people I feel really disappointed in is senior leadership
10:45 PDTShilpa ModyOh yeah I'm not mad at DSS people, they were just doing what they were told to do
10:46 PDTshilpa ModyAnd honestly some of the points raised by the annotation are reasonable (although many are not, and the tone is really inappropriate)
10:46 PDTShruti Bhutada+1000
10:47 PDTShilpa ModyThere is a world where they could have annotated with actual context instead of a tear down, and that would have been a reasonable outcome
10:47 PDTShruti Bhutadayeah i told that to JM} And i1lustrated with an example.
10:48 PDTShruti BhutadaLike instead of saying the headline is myopic, you could say it sounds causal, but referring back to the study design, you cant make causal claims from this study at all.
10:48 PDTShruti Bhutadawhich is both true and fair
10:53 PDTShilpa ModyAnd less mean and more clear
11:04 PDTWendy Tegge Grossagree to all of this. I'm hearing it was direction from MZ
11:04 PDTShruti BhutadaWHAT
11:04 PDTShruti BhutadaI mean not surprised but stil] WHAT?
11:05 PDTWendy Tegge Gross"ended up being basically an MZ call on how it was handled"
11:05 PDTShruti BhutadaLike MZ asked Cox and Adam to say research used flowery language and asked researched leadership to as their own ICs to flame other ICs research?
11:05 PDTShruti Bhutadaresearched leadership bahahahahaha
11:05 PDTShruti BhutadaSorry but I feel like leadership needs to google what leadership means
11:08 PDTWendy Tegge GrossI ar 5 G impression that MZ decided how to frame the external narrative, that other teams fought back hard and lost
11:11 PDTshilpa ModyIt_does feel like the tone of the pesponee has shifted.. like Adam previously sounded like "the wsj was misleading, and the numbers aren't as bad as they look, but also we acknowledge there's a problem and here's what we're doing about it"
11:11 PDTshilpa ModyThat last part has definitely dropped off now
11:13 PDTShilpa ModyBtw did either of you watch any of the hearing?
11:13 PDTShruti BhutadaI watched the first 35 mins
11:13 PDTShruti Bhutadathen 'regretfully' decided to (waste time) on that (pointless) townhall
11:13 PDTShilpa ModyAnything interesting?
11:13 PDTShruti BhutadaI saw Sen Colburn (?)'s questions?
11:14 PDTShruti BhutadaIt was quite interesting!
11:15 PDTShruti Bhutadaone senator asked about our findings (looked like they had Moira and Justin's data from Dec 2020? or maybe Wendy? idk). And Antigone was like: The research is not a bombshell
11:15 PDTShruti Bhutadazand he was like: No, actually this research is a bombshell
11:15 PDTShruti BhutadaAnother asked about what IG did about the findings
11:15 PDTShruti BhutadaAnd Antigone started saying its nor causal yada yada
11:16 PDTShruti BhutadaAnd the senator was like: I am asking if you were aware and if you did something about it
11:16 PDTWendy Tegge Grossit's not a bombshell internally but is a bombshell that these internal research decks exist. So both the senator and Antigone are right
11:16 PDTShruti BhutadaAnd there was more: research isnt causal and its not that bad yada yada wendy Tegge cols: 11:17:02 PDT):
my example to was:
For example: "When reporting on qualitative research results, some conclusions/statements may be researcher speculation versus what was actually reported by participants" makes it sound like I was just guessing or making things up rather than finding the common themes across the qual groups.
11:17 PDTShruti BhutadaThe senator was asking about what IG did so I think it wasnt helpful to just be like: research isnt causal. Since causality isnt the point.
11:18 PDTShruti BhutadaI... dont know how they get it this wrong
11:18 PDTShruti BhutadaLike just answer their actual question. They know you think the research is shit but in this area theres also extemal research. And 1 in 3 or 1 in 5 makes no difference when they are asking you what you did about that 1.
11:19 PDTShruti Bhutadaor maybe they cant say that. idk.
11:20 PDTShruti BhutadaI felt a bit bad for Antigone.
11:21 PDTShruti Bhutada7 Ok so I found out about Ryan Mac from Adam Mosseri and his tweets are hilarious.
11:21 PDTShruti Bhutada"As someone who was a teenage girl myself" : FB: This research is anecdotal. FB exec: in my past life.
xD
11:22 PDTShruti Bhutadasome of it.
11:22 PDTShruti BhutadaCit seems like FB employees keep talking to this dude... wtf he is like a leak factory)
11:22 PDTShruti BhutadaSorry live messaging and reading twitter
11:22 PDTWendy Tegge GrossI just picked up my phone to check whatsapp, and got a notification that shakira was attacked by wild boars, and I can't stop laughing
11:23 PDTShruti Bhutadashit wait I shouldnt Taugh
11:23 PDTwendy Tegge Grossand wanted to pass along a bit of levity
11:23 PDTShruti Bhutadapoor shakira
11:23 PDTShruti BhutadaOMG I am wheezing
11:23 PDTWendy Tegge GrossI'm not laughing that Shakira was attacked, I'm laughing at the juxtaposition
11:24 PDTShruti Bhutadasame
11:24 PDTShilpa Modyok I'm not giving constructive examples like you both are, just ranting about how shitty and inappropriate this feels
11:26 PDTShilpa Modyong that's so wildly ridiculous
11:26 PDTShruti BhutadaI appreciate the honesty.
11:26 PDTShruti BhutadaTHIS sums up everything though
11:27 PDTShi Mody| said I should tell Kristin/Curtiss/Pratiti how shitty this feels. And she is also telling them that the tone of the annotations and town hall were not helpful
11:28 PDTShruti BhutadaLike way to call out un-rigorous research using words like "flowery", "floral", "irresponsible". Should someone tell leadership to define and operationalize their constructs?
11:28 PDTShruti BhutadaI can chime in too. Do we just ping then?
11:28 PDTShruti BhutadaOr write Sonethiing together and vet it for floral language Ysorry, last joke. i clearly deal with pain using mirtl
11:28 PDWendy Tegge Grossand maybe add
11:30 PDTWendy Tegge Grossbut let me ping him first
13:00 PDTShruti BhutadaAdded Justin.
13:00 PDTShruti BhutadaFor group hug
13:02 PDTJus-Tin ChengFinally, some sensible discussion!
13:02 PDTShruti BhutadaI used up all my mirth, but I am pretty sure I will rack it up ina bit.
13:03 PDTshilpa ModyI just flipped back to this tab and remembered the shakira thing again and am now laughing
13:03 PDTShruti BhutadaIn the meantime, how do I respond to leaders checking in and asking how they can support me? Whats a non-causal, non-floral way of saying: You could start by not throwing us under the bus and giving us boiler plate replies?
13:05 PDTShilpa Modythis is_a good question! I just replied honestly to Ml and about how I feel betrayed, that the town hall was tone deaf, etc. But not sure if that's also the right response to give to Kristin etc
13:05 PDTShruti BhutadaI want to say that.
13:13 PDTShruti BhutadaOk I wrote this to Diego, tell me if a version of this can be sent to Kristin etc: I am disappointed in senior leadership and_ how they are respording to this. I am disappointed in the constant use of vague words like "floral, flowery, hyperbolic" to describe our words and the focus on how the research was done rather than the external critique which is about why nothing was done as a result of it. It was extremely hurtful_and disappointing to see our work (and abilities) flamed in the annotations (and I dont know see that helps contextuali critique the work in a useful way). But most of all I am just sad me, Shilpa, Wendy, Justin, you and ave to go through this.
14:07 PDTJus-Tin Cheng+1000 (and also Moira)
14:35 PDTShilpa ModyShould we do a group chat? I was thinking just with Kristin (mostly because I def can't handle curtiss right now and don't know how much of a human Pratiti is). will it be useful / cathartic or just frustrating?
14:36 PDT████Yeah lets do that
14:36 PDTShruti BhutadaSorry the haha is for the pratiti comment
14:37 PDTShruti Bhutadait could be either, but that largely depends on Kristin's response
14:55 PDTShruti BhutadaI was also gonna say, dont feel pressured to do this today.
14:55 PDTShruti BhutadaWe can talk to her when we feel better, not so crappy
14:58 PDTShruti Bhutadaimma go wolf down a pint of ice cream and laugh with mirth
14:59 PDTShruti Bhutadalol in another news, I tagged ind accidently added a vendor to our e mail chain about annotations BAHAHAHA I was like: See you worid, so Tong. XD But she said its ok.
15:00 PDTShruti BhutadaWENDYYYY
15:11 PDTShilpa ModyOmg thats alarming !1!
15:11 PDTShruti BhutadaI know.
15:12 PDTShilpa ModyI guess vendors are NDAed?
15:12 PDTShruti Bhutadayeah. Lauren (the vendor) actually pinged me and said she deleted it.
15:12 PDTShruti Bhutadawell I asked her
15:13 PDTShruti Bhutadaand they are under NDA. and the other |i they usually dont have incentive to leak
15:17 PDTShilpa ModyAlso.... if we feel like it, i think there could be an opportunity to reply to Adam's email and push him to be bolder on mwb work. Like literally the best eodng you could do to support us right now is to take seriously the possibility that we haven't done enough here, and that we should consider bigger bets that take a stronger POV to show teens and the public that we actually care about this problem.
15:18 PDTwerd Tegge GrossShilpa bringing the guys
15:18 PDTWendy Tegge GrossGuts
15:22 PDTShruti BhutadaI was wondering about responding to that but then wondering if he will go: I take back my compliments about your graciousness and professionalism. Asking us to pay attention to research is deeply unprofessional. Can you please go back te staying quiet while we tell the world how much of a joke your research is? tysm.
15:22 PDTShruti BhutadaAh man, I cant be a kind human today
15:25 PDTShilpa ModyI mean I definitely don't care what Adam thinks of me
15:26 PDTshilpa ModyBut also, there's a way to say "hey please think about going bigger on this work" in a polite way, right? Like not blaming anyone for not doing so yet, just let's do so now
15:34 PDTwendy Tegge GrossIt would need to be so diplomatic. Like support us by showing that you value the research and invest in the space. But not calling out that the cg Gad has thrown us under the bus and not making it seem like we don't understand trade offs the company has made
16:15 PDTShruti BhutadaSalt n Starw chocolate gooey brownie is amazing y'all
16:17 PDTJus-Tin ChengSalt & Straw is good ice cream, regardless of what you get!
16:18 PDTShruti Bhutadathey have S$ off on 35$ on doordash!
16:19 PDTWendy Tegge Grossdoes salt n straw arrive still frozen on doordash? I've always been too nervous to try for delivery
16:20 PDTShruti BhutadaSorry wendy i am still laughing at this. this read as hilarious as the shakira getting hit by wild boars
16:20 PDTShruti Bhutadait does!
16:20 PDTShruti Bhutadaits 25 mins from my place and still frozen
16:23 PDTWendy Tegge GrossMaybe shilpa brought the guys to laugh at the boars
16:23 PDTWendy Tegge Grossthat's a ringing endorsement!
16:24 PDTShruti BhutadaShared an image
16:24 PDTShruti Bhutadaits not even in those spacesuit type bags
16:25 PDTJus-Tin ChengBoba always >> ice cream, so that's what I'm getting
16:25 PDTShruti BhutadaShared an image
16:29 PDTWendy Tegge GrossShared an image
16:29 PDTwendy Tegge GrossWine >>> ice cream >> boba
16:30 PDT████I could use a wine boba ice cream mocktzil rn xD
16:31 PDTShruti BhutadaI finished my ice cream lol. I have only ever had a full pint of ice cream once before in my life, and that was also in 2021. Man this year really blows.
16:32 PDTShilpa ModyBtw are you guys working today? I told HMB i'm out for the rest of the week, which I'm pretty sure means I can start drinking before Spm
16:32 PDTShruti BhutadaI didnt work.
16:33 PDTShruti BhutadaI mean, I sort of had to a bit.
16:33 PDTWendy yeqee GrossI worked today cause I had to. I think I'm taking a sick day tomorrow
16:33 PDTShruti Bhutadaits_a bit trippy to also be in some of the predic threads where Ir Miki will literally say, we should just do this, teens dont want that, what about lava lamps Tor take a break.
16:34 PDTShruti BhutadaAnd I want to write something but by the time I am donw caveating I sound like scratched CD xD
16:34 PDTShruti BhutadaShared an image
16:34 PDTShruti BhutadaI am drunk on ice cream! sugar high
16:35 PDTShruti Bhutadaaaaah can i take a sick day and ONLY show up for a candidate interview?
16:35 PDTShruti Bhutadawait, that seems like a waste of a sick day
16:35 PDTWendy Tegge Grossit's not like we have to ration then
16:36 PDTShruti Bhutadatrue
16:38 PDTShilpa Mody0k also people keep offering "support" but like.. what are the options?
16:38 PDTshilpa ModySerious question
16:38 PDTShruti Bhutadatherapists?
16:38 PDTShilpa ModyI feel like I don't know what to ask for, but should probably be asking for something
16:38 PDTJus-Tin ChengI think ask for leadership to reaffirm that they care about researchers
16:39 PDTWendy Tegge Gross4 extra vacation days
16:39 PDTShruti Bhutada"our company has great mental health resources for when we throw you under the... i mean point out your irresponsible reporting"
16:40 PDTShruti Bhutadasorry I was in a townhall once after the june 2020 racial justice movement and this woman was crying about how her family is secretly racist to her husband and the pl started empathizing before a HR person literally went: We have great mental health resources. You can check out Lyra.
16:41 PDTJus-Tin ChengI expect that people will forget about this by Monday, and nothing will have changed.
16:42 PDTShruti BhutadaWe should probably ask for clarification: They say they value our research, But at the same time, Adam, Cox and even the anotations have repeatedly used words like "flower, floral, hyperbolic, irresponsible, myopic and sensationalist" to describe it. Is there a reason for this?"
16:44 PDTShruti Bhutadayeah. Except for a couple dozen ICs who saw this play out and will probably be shit scared about saying anything meaningful
16:44 PDTShruti Bhutadaon decks
16:44 PDTShilpa ModyI feel like they've said they care about us plenty of times. But their actions don't feel like they align. I wish they would just be honest and say something like "we know that our attack was unfairly harsh and called you out for doing things that are typical of most FB research. We had to undermine your research for xyz strategic reason, and we're sorry."
16:45 PDTShilpa ModyThere's a lot of "we're sorry this is happening to you" and no "we're sorry we're doing this to you"
16:45 PDTShruti Bhutadayeah. Every time they say we are sorry this is happening to you, I want to scream: YOU ARE LITERALLY DOING THIS TO US WTF?
16:47 PDTJus-Tin ChengA vast majority of CDs is pretty outraged about this - but I don't have visibility into what's happening in Ux.
16:48 PDTShruti BhutadaI did think about that. I cant tell if they are publicly making a show of how 'we need to avoid this sort of language' to reinforce that the research was shit and should not be taken seriously and WSJ took it way out of context. Or if they genuinely feel angry at what we wrote and think its hyperbolic
16:48 PDTshilpa mMI asked if_he had any insight into how they decided that undermining our research was the best strategy. And also whether anyone stood up for us.
16:48 PDTShruti BhutadaUXR seems to be too.
16:48 PDTShilpa ModyHe said he doesn't know but will find out
16:48 PDTShruti BhutadaSHILPA REALLY BRINGING THE GUTS
16:49 PDTShruti Bhutadahe reached out to me and clarified that they didnt share annotations with him
16:50 PDTShruti BhutadaWe have a research non-managers group Justin. Many UXRs are pretty outraged too. Someone wrote "I would have felt worse about that talk than IT would have after finding out if my research was leaked" and I had to use all my impulse contro] to not heart that
16:51 PDTJus-Tin ChengAnd also the supportive twitter responses
16:52 PDTShruti Bhutadaong its really messed up when twitter is more supportive than the company XC
16:53 PDT████its also wild that they didnt share the annotated files or why they were releasing it with or"
16:54 PDTShruti BhutadaAlso did you see Adam's post? Be kind to researchers today? They make it seem like their hands are being twisted by someone to throw us under the bus. :-, Shilpa Mody (9/30/2021, POT) = I assume they though ll al would fight back and didn't want to deal with that?
16:54 PDTShruti BhutadaProbably.
16:55 PDTShruti BhutadaIn some senses I am glad. It would have hurt more if i) ba approved this.
16:55 PDTJus-Tin ChengWhat does the post say?
16:55 PDTJus-Tin ChengIt does make me feel better too that weren't involved.
16:56 PDTShruti BhutadaShow the Research Team Some Love ¥ This has been a rough couple of weeks across the company. The leaks, barrage of headlines, and then today's testimony have felt, at times, overwhelming. One thing I hope we ait do right now is focus on supporting one another.
there's fo question this has been especially hard on our Research Team. I've been nothing but impressed with how the team has handled these last two weeks - especially those who are directly affected by the leaks and the response. I want to make sure everyone at Instagram understands a few key things:
Though most of. the materials that were leaked were research decks, please don't assume that it was a pesearcher who leaked the materials. It's unlikely, and there's no evidence to suggest that's what appened.
I want to reiterate that research is the foundation of everything we do and we're nothing without the research team's tireless work. It's our responsibility to understand and gather input from the people who use our platform, so we can make Instagram better.
These decks were written to inform the product teams that work to make Instagram better. while some of the leaked material could have been written more precisely, even the most considered overview of subjects as contentious as these can be easily misconstrued to back up whatever narrative someone prefers.
Research on sensitive and complex areas is important and it's also really hard. I'm personally extremely grateful to the individuals who step up to do this work with integrity and compassion.
We are working on ways to better support our teams and to evolve our processes going forward so that we are not in a position to be defending our work against mischaracterizations and misunderstandings. For now, please know that our Research Teams are going through a lot. My ask of all of you is to show them some love and support. If you are struggling or just need a break (and, to be clear, we all need breaks), please prioritize yourself and your mental health above all_ else. Take advantage of the mental health benefits we have, decline the meeting, step back, take a walk without your phone, lean on a colleague - figure out what you need to do to take care of yourself and do it. For everyone else, lean in where you can - if you see a colleague who is struggling, pitch in and see what you can do to help lighten their load. Take care of yourselves and take care of each other. #&]
16:56 PDTShruti BhutadaA Adam's post
16:57 PDTJus-Tin ChengIs it trustworthy?
16:57 PDTshruti BhutadaI... have no idea
16:58 PDTJus-Tin ChengAlso with the peace sign at the end.
16:58 PDTShruti Bhutadare cant tell if this is some PR strategy where they publicly discredit their own research to save their acks
16:59 PDTShruti BhutadaOr if senior leadership is just... going through it
16:59 PDTShilpa ModyI did appreciate that Adam reaffirmed that the way the research was worded isn't the reason for this shitstorm he vould have happened no matter how it was written). And also acknowledging that this research js hard.
16:59 PDTShruti Bhutadalike every time they see a leaked screenshot they scream at the causal language and curse at us then realize that was mean and say we are valued
17:01 PDTShilpa ModyIt is absolutely a PR strategy to publicly discredit the research. I think they are seriously afraid of legal/regulatory repercussions if there are acknowledged causal links.
17:03 PDTShruti BhutadaI wonder if there would have been better ways of doing this without demoralizing all researchers and causing a PR fire where it looks like the company is throwing its own people under the bus.
Wendy Tegge Gross 2021 17:04:35 PDT):
it absolutely is. told me he went through something similar a few years ago
17:05 PDTShruti BhutadaFB needs to hire another PR agency... man...
17:08 PDTShruti Bhutadaok, a researcher sent me this and it genuinely touched me so I am going to pass it on to you all too since it applies to al] of us
17:08 PDTShruti Bhutada"wanted to pass on this thought from my dad (after he read the WSJ stuff): "I think it shows that you guys [researchers] are really advocating for your users!" So good on ya! z
17:10 PDT████I got this from (head of MI for FB app) "Hang in there. We've got your back. This could have happened to any of us, so it happened to all of us."
17:36 PDTShruti Bhutadaok imma send y'all a group hug.
17:37 PDTShruti BhutadaWendy
17:37 PDTShruti Bhutadawendy
17:37 PDTShruti BhutadaYou also cc'ed the vendor
17:37 PDTShruti BhutadaOMG
17:41 PDTWendy Tegge Grossdude, it has been a *Day*
17:46 PDTShilpa ModyI know this isn't funny but somehow it really is
17:47 PDTWendy Tegge GrossAgreed. Now it's time for wine. And then cupcakes
17:48 PDTWendy Tegge Gross280 did Adam say "don't assume it was a researcher who leaked it" because he's gotten those questions? Or is he being more sinister here?