Meta & Children's Online SafetyEmail: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration
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Message From: Sent: To: CC: Subject: Antigone Davis [/O=THEFACEBOOK/OU=EXTERNAL (FYDIBOHF25SPDLT)/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN 11/6/2018 10:33:40 PM Shane Erica @oculus.com]; Jeremy @fb.com] @fb.com] Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration I guess so but I am inclined to use the discrepancy to ask them to explain why they have selected 25 - especially if we are going to lose the 0 option down the road and likely end up with 25 due to inertia. This approach has totally screwed up what we know about people's ages both for safety and ads targeting and if the idea is that we lose some people by forcing them to input info and we want a default let's at least universally default to an age under 18 so we accidentally over safeguard rather than under safeguard. That might not fix our ads targeting issues but it will help with safety and privacy. From: Shane @oculus.com> Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 4:33 PM To: Antigone Davis < @fb.com>, Jeremy Cc: Erica @fb.com> @fb.com> Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration Basically. I'm not positive policy will win the discussion of setting the default to 0, but, yes, wanted to see if you were ok with us going to a consistent approach of 25 for the moment until we can make a company decision on a long-term approach. From: Antigone Davis < @fb.com> Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 1:32 PM To: Shane Cc: Erica @oculus.com>, Jeremy @fb.com> @fb.com> Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration To be clear, you are asking if I am okay letting growth move iOS default to 25 like it is everywhere else just until we come back to them with an informed global recommendation (e.g., policy recommends we default everybody to 0)? And the likely recommendation from policy will be to default everybody to 0? From: Shane @oculus.com> Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 4:23 PM To: Jeremy Cc: Erica @fb.com>, Antigone Davis @fb.com> @fb.com> Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration Sorry. iOS is currently O and they want to make default 25. Cost of moving all surfaces to 0 is > 10M MAP yearly. I'm not sure about open fields. From: Jeremy @fb.com> Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 1:21 PM To: Shane CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL @oculus.com>, Antigone Davis @fb.com> PLTF EX PLTF EX-00592 ΜΕΤΑ3047MDL-014-00153758 METANMAG-002-00384938 PLTF EX-00592_0001 Cc: Erica @fb.com> Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration Just to clarify: iOS is currently 0 and they still want to make the default 25 (parity with other surfaces) because they believe the total (or it yearly) cost to keeping iOS O is more than 10M MAP growth? Did we ever learn if they tested a Pinterest-style open field for free entry? From: Shane @oculus.com> Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 1:15 PM To: Antigone Davis Cc: Jeremy @fb.com> @fb.com>, Erica @fb.com> Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration Hey Antigone, Getting pressure from the growth team to try to close out the default age at account creation as they'd like to get all our surfaces on the same default. The estimated impact of defaulting everyone to 0 is > 10M MAP. As part of the review of age practices we're doing I think we're likely to suggest doing this, but I don't think we're locked on that position and it will obviously take some discussion. Given that the AoC workstream is still being discussed, I'm recommending that we just hold things the way they are until we make a decision. That said, if Growth insists on doing something, I don't see the risk as that high of moving iOS into alignment with Android and our other surfaces. But if you feel strongly, I can try to hold them. Let me know. Thanks, Shane From: Antigone Davis < @fb.com> Date: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 12:15 PM To: Shane @oculus.com> Cc: Arianne @fb.com>, Emily @fb.com>, Nicolas @fb.com>, Paola @fb.com>, Paula @fb.com>, Thomas @fb.com>, Laura @fb.com>, Estelle @fb.com>, Julie @fb.com>, Jeremy @fb.com> @fb.com>, Rob Sherman < Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration If asking for more than 2 hours means this never ships, we should take 2 hours. But I think it is better to have a time validated by external stakeholders or based on data. What is the impact 2 hours has on growth? Did growth agree to 2 hours because it is meaningless? Have we looked at accounts that try again after 2 hours to see what percent might be U13 v people who just hit the wrong age twice? If we want to claim this as a win with our policy stakeholders it has to seem meaningful to them. (PS - we should think of a term other than age gating or verifying for this as it isn't what product means by either, more like a speed bump than a gate). On 25, safety folks find the 25 default objectionable and would prefer no default. The default makes age lying more passive. Are they open to testing how no default impacts sign ups? Do they have data that with no default fewer people sign up or more people lie? On Aug 22, 2018, at 2:49 PM, Shane @oculus.com> wrote: CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL ΜΕΤΑ3047MDL-014-00153759 METANMAG-002-00384939 PLTF EX-00592_0002 Would likely have shipped early next week. Code was written a while ago. They're fine to wait. The age gating was entirely for policy-they'd rather not ship it. Having inconsistent default ages creates some issues for them, but probably as much an issue for us as it's hard to explain why we have different behavior on android & iOS. I think we can do some more due diligence internally, but I don't think we should talk to external stakeholders until we get a better sense of the cost of changing these and how willing growth is to make changes. I won't be able to have those discussions until next week. From: Antigone Davis < @fb.com> Date: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 11:39 AM To: Shane Doculus.com> Cc: Arianne @fb.com>, Emily fb.com>, Nicolas @fb.com>, Paola @fb.com>, Paula @fb.com>, Thomas @fb.com>, Laura @fb.com>, Estelle @fb.com>, Julie @fb.com>, Rob Sherman Ofb.com>, Jeremy @fb.com> Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration When did they plan to ship? Can we get some of these answers before then? From: Shane @oculus.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 2:34 PM To: Antigone Davis Cc: Arianne Emily Nicolas ; Paola Paula Thomas ; Laura ; Estelle Julie ; Rob Sherman; Jeremy Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration Ok, sounds like I should ask the product team to hold on both projects. They're happy to not do age gating. I'll follow-up once I can get more stats on default age. From: Antigone Davis @fb.com> Date: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 11:22 AM To: Shane @oculus.com> Cc: Arianne @fb.com>, Emily @fb.com>, Nicolas @fb.com>, Paola @fb.com>, Paula @fb.com>, Thomas @fb.com>, Laura @fb.com>, Estelle @fb.com>, Julie @fb.com>, Rob Sherman @fb.com>, Jeremy @fb.com> Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration Sadly, a lot has happened since October. It might be worth doing outreach/thought leader focus groups on the time. Do we have data on the efficacy of 2 hours? Unfortunately, we are not held to Snapchat's bar. It would be good to hear from Markus on how the 2 hr and 25 default might land in EU and UK. CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL ΜΕΤΑ3047MDL-014-00153760 METANMAG-002-00384940 PLTF EX-00592 0003 On Aug 22, 2018, at 2:15 PM, Shane @oculus.com> wrote: We actually spent a while on the 2 hours including briefing the FTC and resolving the CARU investigation based on this. I think we discussed this back around Oct. last year as well. Blocking at all on apps is actually doing a lot more than most companies (e.g. Snapchat). Fuller review here:https://fb.quip.com/yxOGA19K64UU Obviously we're different than other apps, but I still think we'll be leading by doing this. CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL From: Antigone Davis < @fb.com> Date: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 10:50 AM To: Shane @oculus.com> Cc: Arianne @fb.com>, Emily @fb.com>, Nicolas @fb.com>, Paola @fb.com>, Paula @fb.com>, Thomas @fb.com>, Laura @fb.com>, Estelle @fb.com>, Julie @fb.com>, Rob Sherman @fb.com>, Jeremy @fb.com> Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration (Sorry accidentally hit send),... 24 or 48 hours will come across as the kind of block U13s will perceive as permanent (for now) but 2 hours will be seen as "you don't take this issue seriously..." Another option might be random times but no less than two hours at tleast then we can say we are trying to make it harder for them to figure out how to game the system. From: Antigone Davis < @fb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:46 PM To: Shane Witnov Cc: Arianne Emily Nicolas ; Paola Paula Thomas Laura Estelle Julie Rob Sherman; Jeremy Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration Got it on session. FWIW, I think it would be good to test what amount of time sounds reasonable to stakeholders. My guess is 2 hours will come across as arbitrary without data to back up that people don't come back after 2 hours to try again. I would expect 24 or 48 hours will From: Shane Doculus.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:40 PM To: Antigone Davis Cc: Arianne Emily Nicolas Thomas Laura ; Paola Estelle Paula Julie ΜΕΤΑ3047MDL-014-00153761 METANMAG-002-00384941 PLTF EX-00592_0004 CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL Rob Sherman; Jeremy Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration www is a session cookie. There aren't cookies per say on apps, so the approximation we came up with was 2 hours or closing the app. I've done a fair bit of pushing on the 25 point and have gotten resistance. The age gate change seemed like it would be bigger impact for us, so I've focused on getting that cleared. I'll push a bit more on understanding the impact, but I think it's significant. It's also just a pain to enter birthdays starting from 0, so there is a UI/user reason for defaulting to something closer to the mean age. Is there another age that you think would be better? Our general advice has been that it can't be close to 13. From: Antigone Davis < @fb.com> Date: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 10:29 AM To: Shane @oculus.com> Cc: Arianne @fb.com>, Emily Nicolas @fb.com>, Paola Paula @fb.com>, Thomas Laura @fb.com>, Estelle Julie @fb.com>, Rob Sherman < Jeremy @fb.com> @fb.com>, @fb.com>, @fb.com>, @fb.com>, @fb.com>, Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration Did not mean permanent. Do we do 2hr or session on www or just session? And yes, I get we use 25 and this is a consistency issue but rather than push for 25 everywhere, I'd encourage us to think about present date everywhere or other options if that has real cost. The current 25 default creates real costs on the policy side and is cited to us with some frequency. On Aug 22, 2018, at 12:28 PM, Shane wrote: Hi Antigone, @oculus.com> I'm not sure I follow the persistent cookie question. On www we use a session cookie and block after the first failure. The argument is that data entry is harder on mobile and people make more mistakes. (The FTC is also pretty clear on their www guidance and that is what we have had globally). We would not want a permanent block because so many people share devices. 25 has been the default on most surfaces for a while. iOS is the outlier. It was supposed to be fixed a long time ago and just never went out. On most of the surfaces we have a pop-up that asks you to confirm that 25 is really your birthday if you don't bother to change it. -Shane ΜΕΤΑ3047MDL-014-00153762 METANMAG-002-00384942 PLTF EX-00592_0005 CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL From: Antigone Davis < @fb.com> Date: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 9:18 AM To: Shane @oculus.com> Cc: Arianne @fb.com>, Emily @fb.com>, Nicolas @fb.com>, Paola @fb.com>, Paula @fb.com>, Thomas @fb.com>, Laura @fb.com>, Estelle @fb.com>, Julie < Jeremy @fb.com>, @fb.com>, Rob Sherman < @fb.com> Subject: Re: Changing default age and improving age gating during registration Adding Jeremy. Thanks Shane. We had opened at least one or two tasks pushing for the first change (years old). It would be good to close those. No persistent cookie? Was there a discussion on using 25 as the default? We get hammered on this issue quite a bit on the safety side. It is seen as a signal to age lie. Not a safety issue, but it also seems likely to create an even greater mismatch census data to ads targeting. On Aug 22, 2018, at 2:14 AM, Shane Doculus.com> wrote: Hi team, We're getting close to rolling out 2 changes that have been in the works for a long time. 1. Improved Age Gating a. We're going to update age gating such that on mobile surfaces after you fail to enter a valid birthday a 2nd time during registration (i.e. you say you're under 13 twice), we block the app from registering new people for 2 hours or until you force close it. b. This is already rolled out in the US. I've been pushing for almost a year to get it out globally and it should happen shortly. 2. Making the default age during registration 25 a. When signing up for FB, the default age is 25 on Android, mTouch, mBasic, and www. We're going to update iOS (currently today's date) and FBLite (currently 1/1/1987) to also default to 25. ΜΕΤΑ3047MDL-014-00153763 METANMAG-002-00384943 PLTF EX-00592_0006 b. This inconsistency is creating some risk (we got a question from the FTC), so I think consistency is better c. There's a real cost to default to today's date and the risk seems relatively low, especially coupled with the improved age gating. This generally seemed good to me and is moving forward so let me know asap if you have concerns. Thanks, Shane CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL META3047MDL-014-00153764 METANMAG-002-00384944 PLTF EX-00592_0007